And with the 3rd pick...

[Brett A.]

And with the 3rd pick (probably) of the 2012 NFL Draft, the Minnesota Vikings select...?

Most of the Mock Drafts I've read have us picking one of the above four. Who do you guys think ends up being the Vikings first pick? If other, speculate below.

Personally, I'm fine with any of those as long as it's not Blackmon. Nothing against him I just really feel like we need to address the OL first (or the secondary... second).

P.S. What about the possibility of us having the 1st overall pick and trading it away to someone like IND, STL, MIA, etc...? Our OT may still be on the board and we could pick up another pick in the process, possibly...

[Malte]

There is no way I see us having the first overall pick no way. Our scheldue is harder than Ind which means they'll have to win 3 more games (actually doubt they will win a single one)
- if Justin blackmon is a gamechanger. I really don't know how good he is, haven't seen any reports / film of him, but if he is in the class of calvin / andre johnson i think he is worth taking. Anyway with the lack of talent by nearly every position besides te, rb (perhaps QB as well? ) - I think we should just take the best player avaliable. we need talent in a lot of places

[adammwarwas]

Too early to tell on a lot of these guys... a lot will change between now and draft time. I voted for Kalil, though, because if he is on the board then it is hard to pass up on an elite OT like that.

I predict that other QB's in this draft class will really see their stock rise between now and April as it happens every year (Mark Sanchez, anyone?). So, the Vikings could really see some trade interest even if they don't have the top pick.

Blackmon is a game changer. I don't know that he'll be as good as either of the Johnsons (nobody knows) but he is a very solid talent. The problem for him is that his draft stock will likely take a hit due to the incredible amount of WR's due to become free agents after this season. Team will sign these guys and then feel like their WR corps is solid.

Malte, as you know, I am a big fan of best player available approach.

[Brett A.]

if Justin blackmon is a gamechanger. I really don't know how good he is, haven't seen any reports / film of him, but if he is in the class of calvin / andre johnson i think he is worth taking.

Here's some film of him, Malte:

[LeCount]

I live in Oklahoma and see Blackmon alot. He has plenty of talent, but I dont think his attitude is very good. With the class of WR's in the draft, and in free agency next year, I think the Vikes would be better suited to pass on this guy. There isnt much depth at WR on the roster, but it isnt one of the biggest holes neither.

[Brett A.]

He has plenty of talent, but I dont think his attitude is very good.

Haven't heard anything about his attitude. Do you have any more info? Interested...

[LeCount]

http://blog.newsok.com/jennicarlson/201 ... uspension/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1b7ALAAYM8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNt51bhy ... 60FE417D6B

The play at 0:44 in the 3rd link is the one that gets me, showboating? Swagger? Diva?
I have to admit personal bias, as I am an Oklahoma fan. Blackmon is a great talent, its just a gut feeling for me.

[Brett A.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1b7ALAAYM8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNt51bhy ... 60FE417D6B

Hey LeCount. Don't know if you know this or not, but thought I would share (for you and everyone). If you use the 'youtube' button when you're posting and put the Youtube link inbetween [youtube] and [/youtube], it will embed the video.

So, like so:

Code: Select all

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxxxx[/youtube]

Just thought I'd point that out! Okay, I'm off to watch those vids now. Thanks!

Edit: Here are those videos LeCount posted if anyone wants to watch them in the comfort of our forums

[LeCount]

Thanks Brett, I think I knew that at one time. Sucks getting old...

[JDBrocks]

I'm a huge fan of Morris Claiborne. I don't think that any offensive player can make the Vikings more competitive next year, but I think that with the right approach next year in FA and the draft, a player of Claiborne's caliber will help the defense begin to figure out how to slow the Packers down. If I'm the Vikings, that is my focus: stop the Packers. Once you get that figured out the rest will fall into place. My best guess on the fastest and best way to get there is to apply as much pressure as possible and fix your coverage issues.

[Brett A.]

If I'm the Vikings, that is my focus: stop the Packers.

Hello JDBrock! Welcome to the site! Hope you enjoy your time here. I don't know if you know this, but our main site is 'vikingsterritory.com.' We have news, rumors, etc... there. Check it out!

Now to your post: Very interesting idea - making your focus simply stopping the Packers, that is. Can't say I 100% agree with it as I think any teams' focus should be winning a championship. Whether those are the same things remains yet to be seen this year. I understand your view though because, as of late, the road to the Superbowl goes through Green Bay.

Still gotta say I think we should go OT. Just consistently getting killed in the trenches. Gotta start in the inside and move outwards - how all great teams are built.

[JDBrocks]

Hello JDBrock! Welcome to the site! Hope you enjoy your time here. I don't know if you know this, but our main site is 'vikingsterritory.com.' We have news, rumors, etc... there. Check it out!

Now to your post: Very interesting idea - making your focus simply stopping the Packers, that is. Can't say I 100% agree with it as I think any teams' focus should be winning a championship. Whether those are the same things remains yet to be seen this year. I understand your view though because, as of late, the road to the Superbowl goes through Green Bay.

Still gotta say I think we should go OT. Just consistently getting killed in the trenches. Gotta start in the inside and move outwards - how all great teams are built.

Thanks for the welcome. I've been looking around for a while, and Fran the Man invited me here.

Of course every team should have it's sights set on a championship, why else would you play? I do think it's unrealistic to take a team and do a complete 180. Setting small goals is a good way to get where you eventually want to be. A division split and a non-losing season next year for instance. If I were the Vikings coaches I would have that as your absolute minimum measure of success/improvement. Taking a 2 win team and increasing the wins by 400% would be a big step.

In order to do that you have to compete within the division. The way teams beat us within the division is by passing the ball. The poor LB play moves the Safeties out of position, which means there is no one to pass the receiver off too for the CBs, and teams are just playing pitch and catch all game. Whether it's to the TEs and backs because the LBs can't cover themselves with a blanket, or down the sidelines because the Vikings have short, slow corners - the teams in this division will continue to beat the Vikings through the air. Morris Claiborne and a good FA Safety like Michael Griffin would go a long way to fixing some of the defensive issues that are killing the Vikings.

As far as the trenches go, I have to question whether or not that logic still holds true in today's NFL. Look at the teams over the past 5 drafts that have drafted top LT prospects with early first round picks: the Browns, Dolphins, Rams, Seahawks, Redskins, 49ers. These teams have not made a very strong case for building a team with a franchise tackle. The 49ers up until this year were not very good, and still win with a stellar defense.

Now look at the teams that are competitive every year: The Colts, Patriots, Steelers, Packers, Giants, Ravens, and Saints. None of those teams have invested in high 1st round LTs. In fact the Steelers, Packers, and Colts have been known for porous offensive lines. What's the difference? Most of those teams have QBs that are top 15 at their position, and most of them have good to great defenses. The Patriots and Saints are the only teams fielding what I consider a very good offensive line. Those teams excel at pressuring the QB and creating turnovers with defensive playmakers.

This isn't to say that I don't think that a Left Tackle isn't important, because I do. I just don't think that having a pro bowl Left Tackle instead of an average starter there is going to make a huge impact on any team's win/loss record. Charlie Johnson hasn't been the difference between a win or a loss in any game this season. Is he the most replaceable player on the roster? Sure. Is he losing you games? no.

That's just one man's take though Thanks again for the kind welcome! The site looks great, and the editor looks nice and has great features. Well done!

[adammwarwas]

I would add that we have to also figure out how to keep the Packers from slowing us down... something that they have proven very capable of this season. Perhaps Woodsen will retire and keep Ponder from having those nightmares...

[Brett A.]

Perhaps Woodsen will retire and keep Ponder from having those nightmares...

Hopefully next year Ponder, an improved line and receiving core will be giving him nightmares.

Thanks for the compliments JD!

[JDBrocks]

I would add that we have to also figure out how to keep the Packers from slowing us down... something that they have proven very capable of this season. Perhaps Woodsen will retire and keep Ponder from having those nightmares...

Give Ponder and the offense an offseason to put some good work in. They did put up 30 on the pack with Adrian running all over them. A speed threat receiver in free agency will still do more to take the top off of the defense and help the offense more than a rookie tackle, IMO.

[Brett A.]

I was reading a mock draft last night that brought up a good point about why we should go OL (LT). We need to protect our investments. Not only will Ponder continue to get killed if we don't protect his blind side with a guy like Kalil, but AP will continue to have less holes to run through. I'm not going to be upset if we go WR, DB instead of OL, but I do think OL is the smartest position for us to take. And with the talent and positional value Kalil brings, it would be hard to pass on him. Not a flashy pick, but almost a guaranteed improvement immediately.

[JDBrocks]

I actually think protecting him on the interior is more important than on his blind side. If the guards and center continue to let the pocket collapse, Ponder has nowhere to step up. At least when the tackles get beat he can step up with a solid push up front a guy like Grubbs or Nicks in the off season will do more for the offensive line than a tackle will . The pocket starts with the guards giving Ponder a place to step up.

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but tackles as franchise cornerstones are quickly becoming a thing of the past. If they can get some good play out of Fusco, Love, or DeGeare next year, and sign a top flight G in Free Agency, the offensive line will look much better than it has, even with a struggling Charlie Johnson. Plus the Vikings' bread and butter right now is in the run game with Adrian. The run game is won and lost with guard play. On runs between the tackles Peterson leads the league in getting hit behind the line of scrimmage. Just another testament to his deity status

[adammwarwas]

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but tackles as franchise cornerstones are quickly becoming a thing of the past.

That's an interesting take, one I haven't heard very much... interesting.

And welcome JD!

[Brett A.]

If they can get some good play out of Fusco, Love, or DeGeare next year, and sign a top flight G in Free Agency, the offensive line will look much better than it has...

Those are a lot of "ifs!"

I understand your point though. I'm sure some of the other guys will debate you vehemently over this, though haha... Coach, looking at you.

In my opinion, if we are going to focus on the offensive line, tackle is the priority, not guard. We are stronger on the inside then we are on the outside. Still got Hutchinson at guard (Although, is he sticking around for next year? What's his contract like? Don't know off the top of my head...) and I read somewhere that Sully is actually the #2 C in the league right now - stats wise. We've been getting beat on the edges all year. A lot of the time we end up stacking the line with TEs and leaving RBs in the backfield just to assist with blocking (which also hurts our passing game). By grabbing a top-notch tackle in the draft, not only will it give Ponder better protection, but it will also open up some TEs as receivers. (Know I'm beating a dead horse here as well)

Thought this site had some interesting stats about where our line ranks. We are currently 32nd in pass protection: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Also, check this out: http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/20 ... e-linemen/
ProFootballFocus did a study on the pass protection effectiveness of various players over a three year period. Currently, on our line, we have three people in the bottom 10 at their respective position (C. Johnson, T / Herrera, G/ Sullivan, C). I know that contradicts the person that said they had seen Sully as #2 somewhere but... who knows (Also, the study was from 2008-10). In fact, if you look at the stats, both Sullivan and Herrera are one person away from being dead last. Yikes!

[adammwarwas]

Hopefully, next year, Sully IS #2... on the depth chart that is.

[JDBrocks]

I disagree. Hutch has been getting blown up and is one of the reasons that Johnson looks as bad as he does. The pocket starts in the front. On a five step drop, if the first read isn't there, and the tackle is beat, if there is no pocket there is nowhere to go.

Teams with great guard play are winning (Packers/Ravens/Saints/Patriots). Teams with great left tackle play and average guard play are not winning (Browns/Dolphins/Rams/Seahawks). Improving the odds of success for the best offensive weapon we have is another advantage. Peterson's running lanes are going to be improved with Guards that can pull and that win off of the snap.

I know not many will agree with me, but the play on the field doesn't lie. Look at how Brees, Flacco, and Rodgers are able to step up in the pocket and make accurate throws. When Ponder has to move laterally because he can't step up the odds of him being accurate decrease significantly. Pass blocking isn't all about the tackles either. The Vikings play in a division featuring Raji, Suh, and Fairly. The interior of the line MUST protect Ponder as much if not more than the tackles do.

I'm not really on board with an offensive draft at all, I just enjoy this debate, because I find new and dying trends particularly interesting. I still want Morris Claiborne at 3 if they aren't trading out. IDEALLY they will find a way to trade with Cleveland and score both of their 1sts (9 and 19) as well as their 2nd (41). 4 picks in the top 50 will go a long way in infusing new talent to a team currently devoid of it for the most part. I also think that Speilman and Studwell have to go. They are the ones that created a defense full of back ups and special teamers. I don't know that I trust them, although they have been generally successful early in the draft.

I don't want to seem argumentative, but I really enjoy this topic

[adammwarwas]

Personally, I enjoy a good argument

Which... is why I would argue those four teams are winning because of their quarterbacks in addition to better O-Lines and defenses. Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Joe Flacco and Tom Brady is a far superior group to that of Colt McCoy, Matt Moore, A.J. Feely, and Tarvaris Jackson. Something tells me the guard play is not even close to the top reason these teams are successful while the others aren't... not to downplay the importance of O-line though.

[Brett A.]

Brocks, thanks for sticking around and debating this. Doesn't seem argumentative at all... just a good debate.

I would agree with Adam. You can't really use those four winning teams and attribute their success to good guard play and then say the other four are losing because they aren't strong at guard. There are many other factors - the main one being QB (which Adam pointed out).

A trade would be nice if we can somehow manage to still acquire everyone we want... I doubt it, though. Don't really trust Speilman... You're right - they have been successful early in the draft. After that though, they seem to screw up pretty badly.

It would be amazing if somehow, someway, the Colts could manage to win 3 games and we could move up to the #1 spot. A trade would be very likely at that point and would put us in an incredible position. (A guy can dream, right?)

[LeCount]

Good points by all JD,Brett and Adam. Personally, I think I want Kalil first. Has it been mentioned that Johnson would be a better Guard than Tackle?
That being said, Claiborne is just as fine a pick and I wouldnt be disappointed going DB first. OL and DB need to be the first two picks. Im just not on board with a WR early, although the speedy #1 would be great, There are simply more holes elsewhere. A Free Agent worth his salt, and this receiving core isnt really that bad. Not great, but at least average.

Any thoughts on the safety depth in the upcoming draft?

[Brett A.]

Any thoughts on the safety depth in the upcoming draft?

I've been loving the site "Mocking the Draft" lately... They have a Top 100 Prospects for the upcoming draft. Below are the safeties they include in that group.

26. Mark Barron, SS, Alabama
47. Robert Lester, FS, Alabama
48. T.J. McDonald, FS, Southern California
61. Markelle Martin, FS, Oklahoma State
75. Kenny Tate, FS/OLB, Maryland
85. Harrison Smith, SS, Notre Dame
89. Antonio Allen, SS, South Carolina (NFL Draft Scouts)

I've linked to" Mocking the Drafts" or "NFL Mocks" prospect notes for each.

I guess the depth isn't that great though... out of 100 players, only 7% are safeties... or maybe that's about right? I wouldn't be surprised if we take a Safety in the 2nd or 3rd round.